the jews began by telling us that we were made in the image and likeness of God...but what could that mean? do the elohim have arms, legs, heads? do they care about their bodies in feeling pain and pleasure? do they worry about their self images? do they have goals and duties? apparently according to the bible they are much like us, only with the ability to leave the earth and fly around in celestial chariots... they had sex with the daughters of man [the book of enoch spells this out] and could manifest bodies just like ours only with super powers... but they ate and drank and fornicated... who were they exactly? certainly no first cause as the abstract theological god.. Jehovah was obviously just their leader, one of them, not their maker, unless he was their forefather...but he too apparenlty lived a life in some realm or planet much like our own... more and more it seems obvious that the bible god was either an alien or the first real attempt at a more intellectual sci fi story than some of the neighbors had.
the dreamer dreaming
JoinedPosts by the dreamer dreaming
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RE-mythologising "God"?
by Narkissos incorollary to the often discussed religious shift from polytheism (including henotheism) to monotheism is a literary shift from mythology to theology.. mythology is essentially narrative.
the gods and goddesses are good story characters.
they act, and things happen to them.
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How the Jehovah's Witnesses Become Robots, Kill Real Human Emotions
by flipper inthink about any cult you can name where the members have been told to follow leaders no matter what is told to them.
think of the late 60's with the charles manson family, how he seduced those young women into thinking he was jesus christ, and they followed him like sheep to the slaughter.
unfortunately for sharon tate, that's what it became.
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the dreamer dreaming
E-motions = what MOTivates YOU --emotions are like indicator lights on the car dash, they tell us to move or stop moving.
most emotions are based strictly on bodily functions, symbolized within the mind by specific sensations like hunger, thirst, happiness, etc
the mind can, by manipulation of symbols, create emotions which are disconnected from bodily functions and related to goals and issues of self-image.
JWs manipulate emotions by means of fantasy ideals implanted as benchmark standards. divation from these standards can cause real psychological pain.
when a JW sees someone dis-fellowshipped or DA'd, they compare this individuals life to their ideal fantasy life and find them wanting, flawed, and worse, willfully violating the ideal and thus to be labelled as EVIL. JW ideal has contradictory aspects such as LOVE YOUR ENEMY which causes bodily conflict -- react with hatred or love at someone DA'd? the result if often a blank neutral look as there is no clearly allowable expression in the ideal. JWs are constantly at a loss as to what to do because the ideal they share is incomplete and fuzzy around the edges and so they desire to be told what to do in each and every situation--
I was told by THREE seperate elders who were not in any converasion with each other that " I would NEVER presume to think I knew more than the GB" which I heard clearly as I would NEVER presume to THINK for myself...
from the platform, I heard with my own two ears---- "NO independant thinking, that was the way of Satan!" what does that leave but DEPENDANT thinking? --see hypnosis.
it seems to me that most humans scheme to get others to make decisions...to avoid blame to avoid failing, etc... the decision makers are often paid well because no one else wants their job in the end.
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1st post
by bbdodger inhey everyone... i'm so happy that a forum like this exists.
it makes me feel like i'm not the only one.
even my mother, who has been disfellowshipped for nearly 20 years still calls sites and literature like this "apostate".
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the dreamer dreaming
like most manipulations and manipulators, JWs function by getting you to REJECT reality and compare yourself to a carefully crafted IDEAL. this IDEAL is presented as your true potential and something you should always strive to be...and it seems to make sense...but because it is an ideal, is not about reality, and may not be about true potential either. the one thing it cannot help but do is to cause guilt for not measuring up and that is its real purpose.
Reality is always exactly what it must be in each and every moment, not what it could be...and if you realize this, nothing can cause self loathing guilt to accumulate...but so few come to understand this. should you strive to be the best you can be? that depends on what your goals are... sometimes being the best may harm some of your goals sometimes it may change your goals along the way and sometimes it may help you to reach one goal and lose others...each move is always a gamble to some degree...there is only the moves you make, not the ones you could have made...accept them, learn from them and prepare for your next move. no guilt required.
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Any Supporting Scriptures for the Trinity in the OLD Testament?
by eclipse ini did not want to hijack this great thread that booker-t started:.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/142032/1.ashxon the trinity.. i know the supporting scriptures for the trinity in the new testament.... i was wondering, are there any ones that support the trinity, or even a dual-god in the old testament?.
thank you in advance for all of your comments and scriptures.. .
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the dreamer dreaming
the trinity is a fraud doctrine without support in either testament.
in the OT Yahweh or Jehovah is the El Elohim, the God of [the gods] and the elohim are seen as beings of lesser power than him, but greater than humans
and often called angels or messengers when they come to earth. they are typically desginated as the beni-elohim or the sons of [the gods] meaning part of the guild of god like beings.
and the jews believed the "false" gods were rebel elohim. the world was created by ELOHIM = could mean all of them working as one, not just YHWH.
let US make man in OUR image is again spoken by the elohim. here the man has become like one of US is YHWH to the elohim.
gradually the jews came to see YHWH as the ONLY TRUE GOD, but to them this always included the rest of the faithful elohim as part of his total powerbase...and they were never included in the railings against the false gods.
trinitarians say god is three whos but one what...yet Isaiah clearly says YHWH is ONE person as well as ONE god...not three, no WE nor US, but I and HE.
the pick and chose out of context verses used to create the franken-god trinity from the new testament ignores a lot of contradictory verses which are quite clear.
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UN scandal, the defence!!! The Letter to Brant Jones
by whereami inis this a legit excuse?
is this balanced and fair?
here is the link- http://www.jehovahsjudgment.co.uk/watchtower-un-ngo/appendix_jonesletter.html.
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the dreamer dreaming
anything that can cause doubt about a hypnotists trust worthiness can help free the hypnotized, but in this UN issue, I see
nothing of great value. perhaps it has helped some to open their eyes about the real CON game going on and if so, then by all means
keep it going... but I suspect the average JW woudl buy the party line and think this is meaningless unless and until they are on their way out.
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What does it require to be a Saved Christian
by Undecided infirst you must have faith in something you can't prove is real.
assured expectation of something you can't see.
must talk to some god you can't see or hear.
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the dreamer dreaming
it requires believing there is a being who loves you and wants you to love him back or he will murder you.
it requires believing that this being came to earth or sent his son to earth to be murdered on your behalf...so he would not have to murder you.
it requires you to believe that reality is wrong, but some set of rules and regulations that reject reality as wrong be viewed as perfect.
it requires you to allow others to think for you. [see hypnosis]
it requires you to assume your desires are completely evil, but what others want you do to based on their interpretation of hebrew myths, is good.
it requires you to bend over and take it without vasiline because nothing is to great for you to do for the sake of your god, and no sacrifice, including your own family and friends.
it requires you to trust a being who you suspect does not even exist because you have never found any way to tell for sure...
it requires you to be a sheep and allow shepherds to fleece you regularly.
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Question about Sept. 11th
by pratt1 ini spoke to a friend of mine yesterday who is a active dub although his actions and decisions in most things would indicate that he is not a believer of the "troof".. we spoke about 9/11 and how horrific the event was for everyone.. one of the things we spoke about was how terrible it must be for the people who made the decision to jump out of the windows because of the intense fire, heat and smoke in the tower.. he commented that an elder in his hall mentioned that this act is still considered suicide and those persons would not be part of the resurrection.. how ridculous is that?
do they just make up the rules on a whim?.
does anyone know what the "offical postion" on this would be with the borg?.
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the dreamer dreaming
since Jesus said, no one TAKES my life, but I GIVE it for the sheeple, why is that NOT suicide?
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JW Ralph Kent dies: Was Disney imagineer and Mickey Mouse watch designer
by Gopher indoes anybody know what tie this man had to the jw's?
he was well-respected at disney world.
his memorial service will be at the kingdom hall.
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the dreamer dreaming
JWs must have a good imagination
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the dreamer dreaming
pagan was originally used by christians to mean red neck in latin.
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What happens when we die?
by Tatiana inis death an end, a beginning, or just another stage on the path?
i watched a movie last night called the eye 2. it was about the buddhist belief in reincarnation.
in the movie, souls wait for women to give birth in order to reincarnate into the baby.
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the dreamer dreaming
we are reality dreaming about ourself, how we do it I suspect no one will ever know, but for each of us, we have NEVER known a moment when we did not exist and NEVER shall.
if you come from nothing and return to nothing, why can't that nothing bring you back again?
we seem to be individual waves upon the same ocean... the energy of one wave never vanishes but spawns a new wave, several waves, or is combined with other waves.
people ask if there are souls how can new people arise... if you see the source as fluid and ever changing... it makes more sense.
in buddhism there are no permanent souls that trasfer from life to life, only an energy which obeys the laws of karma or cause/effect.
in buddhism re-birth is not looked upon as a good thing, but something to escape...as their first noble truth is that existing is ultimately filled with dissatisfactions or sufferings.
I personally do not believe escape is possible nor even desirable but thats just me and I am a dreamer not a buddhist.